As much as I would love to interview every single artist that features on Loverboy myself, it goes without saying, that having one icon speak with another usually yields more insightful and unexpected results. Just look at Interview magazine – that Andy Warhol knew a thing or two.

And so it was, after watching the upcoming documentary ‘I Hate New York‘, we realised we simply had to sit down and speak with New York’s original IT girl, Sophia Lamar. We needed to discuss her incredible life which began being taught to ‘act straight’ in one of Cuba’s re-education camps before go-go dancing in 90s New York and modelling for Levi’s, amongst others, along the way!

But who should talk to Sophia for us? How about another famous figure from New York’s nightlife, one who went on to win Season Three of some show called RuPaul’s Drag Race, Raja Gemini aka Sutan Amrull. Last time we spoke, Raja told us,  ‘Loverboy is a great idea. People are ready.‘ Yes, we are overdue a catch-up and what better opportunity?!

Scroll down to read the highlights, or at the bottom of the feature you can even find the audio, embedded in the page.

OK, the date is 16th September, the time is 4:45pm, my name is Sutan Amrull and both my lunch & breakfast today have been Prosecco and tonnes of really good pot. So let’s see how this fucking interview goes! Sophia, I have questions for you! I am a child of the 90s and my first introduction to you was through flyers and photographs of you in magazines. The ‘transsexual’ was still a very exotic and beautiful thing during the 90s Club Kid era. The first time I actually saw you was in the Meat Packing District. I was very young….
You’re as young as long as you feel young. Your feathers are still fuzzy!

Thank you. I came to New York, in the mid-90s and there was a club called Boys Life. I remember it being very dark and seeing you go-go dancing onstage with Amanda Lepore.
That was what we used to call Sophanda, because we used to be together all the time. Sophanda Lapore.

As a kid who idolised you and had only seen you in images in magazines, it was a very profound moment.
I am so grateful that I filled that void for you. What is the question?

Well, you can answer it or not…
You can ask me what you want. I’m an open book.

How old are you?
My calendar age is sixty-three. Mentally, I am a fourteen-year-old boy trapped in a heterosexual, transexual woman.

I feel the same way!
We are gemini! I’ve always felt like that fourteen-year-old boy. That would be me for life.

At fourteen, I was in a lot of emotional pain.
At fourteen, you can’t be in emotional pain. You only felt that way because society, and your family, had expectations of you. Now you know both my calendar age and my emotional age. What’s next?

Also I can say in agreement, I’m 44, I’m ageing…
I’m not ageing.

I am! My body doesn’t hurt. But I don’t sleep as much. You would think, given the amount of pot I smoke, sleep would not be a problem. But I’m in my head a lot. You’re a gemini too, we’re fucked up.
I know, I know.

I’ve always found you very intimidating. But having spent the afternoon with you, I feel quite the contrary.
I’m not rude or mean, like people say, I just want to know what the hell people want! I don’t like compliments because to me, they’re like insults. If you tell me, ‘You’re a piece of shit!’ It’s true. According to you. If you tell me, ‘You’re the most wonderful thing I’ve seen in my life!’ It’s true. According to you! But there’s nothing I can do about that. Whether you give me a compliment or an insult, what should I do? Say ‘Thank you’? No! I’m like, ‘Ok, dude.’

I pretend I’m a Disney Princess and say, ‘Thank you!’ I’m usually faking it.
Me too! I don’t like it when people approach me. The other day someone came up to me in the movies but I said, ‘Wait one second please.’ I didn’t want to be rude, I was just looking for someone in the credits. But this person continued and said, ‘I just wanted to say that you are the most beautiful girl in Europe.’ I was so overwhelmed, I didn’t know what to say, except, ‘Oh I like your top.’ But I was thinking, ‘Fuck off!’

You might be socially awkward.
I am. People don’t understand how shy I am. Everything I do is because I need to pay bills.

You must have some hunger for attention.
I do, but as soon as you look at me, I hide. I can’t deny that I want attention. That would be lying and I’m not a liar. I saw someone on TV the other day and she was asked, ‘Are you afraid to age?’ She replied, ‘No, because I look better now than I did twenty years ago.’ I thought, ‘She’s lying!’ Otherwise, everyone would want to look sixty years old. But there is not one single product on the market that sells itself on trying to make people look older, in an attractive way! So anyone that says, ‘I’m not afraid to age,’ is lying.

Ok, let’s move back a bit. You said you moved to New York twenty-eight years ago.
Yes, and I’ve done everything from opera to podcasts with Jonny McGovern. Every year I do twenty or so independent projects with filmmakers, advertisers or features in music videos. I move in different environments.

I love that you are so elusive. That could be another gemini thing. You’re like the Loch Ness Monster.
I always say, ‘Everyone has fifteen minutes of fame and once you’ve used them, you’re done.’ I like to think I still have two-and-a-half minutes left. Everyone is trying to be the flavour of the month.
I did a video a long time ago with the Scissor Sisters, ‘Filthy/Gorgeous.’ Every time I went out, gay people would come up to me and say, ‘Oh I saw you in the Scissor Sisters’ video!’ This year I have appeared in several rock groups’ music videos. When I go to straight places, people say, ‘Oh you were in that video…’ It really depends who your market is.

It sounds like your market is everyone.
Well, someone once challenged me and said, ‘The only people interested in transexuals are the gays.’ So I said, ‘OK I’m going to prove you wrong! I’m going to start my own brand and be everywhere! Nobody is putting me in a box!’ I am who I am. You cannot take away my past. I can still be very masculine…that’s because I am.

There is that powerfulness about you, maybe it’s even hyper-femininity.
I don’t know how to be feminine. My friends always tell me I should have gone to ‘ladies’ school before having a sex change. But I never wanted to be a ‘lady.’

How old were you when you decided to transition?
Well, when I grew up in Cuba, there was a huge repression against gay people. I spent my fifteenth birthday in a re-education camp for homosexuals, not making them straight, but making them ‘act’ straight. I never actually wanted to be a woman. I just thought my life would be easier that way.

I’m one of those people that could have gone either way. When I was younger people kept trying to encourage me to transition. But I was very resistant. Now I just want to be an old, bitter-ass, glamorous, gorgeous lady with fierce fucking clothes.
I don’t want gay men to feel insulted by what I just said. I’m not walking round town shouting, ‘Every faggot should be a woman.’ I’m for me. I never felt like a woman trapped in a man’s body. That’s a horrible cliché. That sounds like I’m trying to make an excuse. I do what I want with my own body.

How old were you when you made the decision?
In my mid-twenties. But like everything in my life, it was a process. When I first came to New York in 1982, I hated it. So I came back every year until I was ready to move here. The same with my process of becoming a woman. I didn’t want to transition as a woman but gradually I took hormones and was like, ‘Well are they going to keep my skin beautiful? My voice high?’ AND THEY DIDN’T WORK!

Haha…sometimes I hear those high notes!
Yeah, sometimes! So, yes, originally I didn’t want to be a woman. I was too concerned what my family would think. But then my breasts started to grow and I felt great. I was also being approached by beautiful, young straight men.

Oh, honey, I hear you. What faggot doesn’t love the attention of a young, straight guy?
Exactly. They want you. They’re willing to pay you, take you to dinner. That doesn’t exist in this gay world. So my ego began to think, ‘Well this could be great for me.’ I’m not promoting transexualism or anything like that.

I understand everything you are saying, Sophia. I didn’t really fit in with gay boys. I was tall, thin, feminine…and gorgeous! I was attractive to a bunch of straight dudes. Trannychasers! It was fun! It was something that my gay friends weren’t doing.
Yeah! Sometimes my friends show me transsexuals looking for gay boys on Grindr. But I don’t understand why trans people are looking on a gay app? I’m not trying to be a dictator, but if you are transitioning as a woman, you should look for a straight man.

What if you’re a lesbian? You know trannies who are into women.
Don’t go on Grindr! When you are trans, the gays don’t want you. Everyone wants masculinity. But masculinity is a project only homosexuals love.

Bitch, I cannot believe the truth you just spoke!
It’s so contrived. No other group of people control their sexuality in the same way. When you’re very young and do anything different to your peers, they’ll be like, ‘What are you doing?! Are you a fag?’ All those boys are watching the alpha male and imitating him. But masculinity’s not natural. Look at the way straight men grab a beer. Have you ever watched that? Or the way they smoke! They hide the cigarette in their hand!

That’s interesting.
It’s so contrived. It’s a project. Women don’t care about it. But homosexuals love it because for them it’s the idea of masculinity.

It’s all drag. I was actually dating a guy who competed in leather competitions. They were way cuntier than a room full of drag queens. How do you feel about these new kids coming up and being gender non-binary, gender fluid?
If you want to present yourself as a woman, but people keep coming in and calling themselves non-binary, of course it’s going to make you angry. But I think the whole thing’s ridiculous.

I don’t give a fuck what people call me.
Me either.

I think that has to be another gemini thing.
Yes. And the more they think it offends you, the more they’ll use it against you.

How do you feel about Scarlett Johansson playing a transman? I didn’t like it because she didn’t even look like the guy!
There is not one single trans actor in Hollywood with enough power to draw people to the box office.

Boop. You just said it.
One. Movies are a business. Two. Imagine if the Fire Dept protested because some actor played a fireman. Three. If you don’t get a part, you should fire your agent. That’s more productive than being a whiny queen.

Everyone needs to relax.
All the trans actors don’t actually want to be actors, they want to be movie stars, they want to play beautiful women. I have worked in more than twenty-five films. You can see my career on IMDB. I play characters. I’m hungry for them. I don’t care how I look.

Are you someone who who would like to help and encourage others going through the process of identity and gender?
No.

You ain’t nobody’s momma! Now, my idea of you has always been as one of the first tranny beauties that I had ever seen in my life. But you were always connected to an edgier part of fashion. You were that trans-girl who wasn’t there to just be ‘sexy.’
No, whenever I do something sexy it’s because I’ve been requested to play that part and so I do it. All those years you saw me dancing in a gold bikini, it’s because I was working. It’s not me. You never saw me in the daytime.

No, this is the first time actually!
I remember, there was this one night in the 90s, this guy saw me in the street and said, ‘Oh that’s what you look like with your clothes on!’ Because they always saw me in a bikini.

Your choice of clothes has always been something that stands out about you.
The first time I saw you, I loved what you were wearing. I really admire your style. It sounds like we’re sucking each other’s ass.

I want to suck your ass.
I thought, ‘She is the only one who has a different style there.’ I have breasts but I don’t have to have them in my face, like everyone else.

Do you have any regrets about your transition?
Only that I didn’t do it when I was eighteen, but that was impossible. It’s the best decision I ever made. I guess because I never had expectations of life after it, like, ‘I want to find a husband and move to the hills.’ There are no hills in New York. I’ve always been very independent. I just want to be me. What are the other questions?

I probably should have asked this first, but I’ve always been very curious about Cuba. It’s always been very fashionable. Naomi Campbell took photos of Fidel Castro. Now my friends are vacationing there.
I think the revolution has always been very photogenic.

Bitch, can we hang out more?! I need more truths!
When Castro came down from the mountains with long hair and beards, it was 1959. There was this counter-culture going on. But at the same time, they were putting homosexuals in concentration camps. They shot 15,000 Cubans. 1.5m Cubans went into exile. They gave you free health care, like a slave. The education was free too, except they told you what to read and what not to read.
Now, it’s even worse. People go there and get drunk on mojitos. They don’t see the reality, the poverty. The Communist party controls everything. You cannot have more than twenty-five people in your apartment!

That’s called ‘Thursday’ in my life!
If you say anything against the government, they’ll put you in jail! Wow, that fucking wine is hitting me now!

OK, well, what do you think of RuPaul’s Drag Race?
I want to discuss the controversy of Ru saying, ‘You can identify as a woman and say you’re transitioning, but once you start changing your body, it changes the whole concept of what we’re doing [on Drag Race].’ I think he is absolutely right. When you are competing in a sport, if you use performance-enhancers, you are disqualified. So I want to say, to any trans person taking part in a drag competition, shame on you!

You know this is a very controversial thing to say in 2018?
I don’t care! If you are transitioning to be a woman, you should be competing in the real world. I think RuPaul is right.

So you don’t think that ‘drag’ can be women? ‘Drag’ can be trans?
Drag is a man dressed as a woman, performing as a woman. A drag king is a woman dressed as a male, performing as a male. It’s all very punk, I love it! But when you begin to become a woman, you get breasts, you become pretty….well, you’re competing with men, who have no breasts. They’re trying really hard to look like women, the best they can. If you’re taking hormones and have breasts, I don’t think it’s fair on the others.

Well, that’s kind of it. I’m honoured. You’re a pioneer.
I’m not a pioneer. There have always been a lot of transexuals modelling – Roberta Close, Tula, Coccinelle. But nobody knew! Now the transgender scene is a trend. A fad! Every little boy who dances in front of the mirror in a dress – his parents don’t know what to do so they take him to doctor, who says, ‘You have a transgender son.’ But tell me, what faggot hasn’t danced in front of the mirror in a dress?! Putting a child on hormone blockers, I think is very dangerous. That’s my opinion.

And we are one of a gazillion little ants that crawl all over this beautiful planet. I say in my show that we’re all ghosts driving a meat car. Sometimes we need to take good care of our spirits, more than the thing that will deteriorate.
Well, I want to take care of this body because it’s the only thing I’ve got.

Truth!

Sophia Lamar – Twitter / Instagram.
Sutan Amrull – Twitter / Instagram.

 

Credits
Photographer (& Mic Assistant!): Charles Ludeke
Styling: James Veloria
Grooming: Michael Moreno
Makeup: Ahbi Nishman

Main image & Photos 3, 6, 10 & 11
Sophia: Gucci dress, Vintage sunglasses
Sutan: Comme Des Garçons arm piece, YSL sunglasses

Photo 4
Sophia: Ann Demeulemeester top, Dolce & Gabbana skirt, Vintage necklace

Photos 1 & 8
Sophia: Alaïa body suit, Dior heels, YSL earrings

Photos 2 & 9
Sutan: Clothes Sutan’s own, all accessories Jean Paul Gaultier

Photos 5 & 7
Sutan: All Jean Paul Gaultier w/Ann Demeulemeester harness